du Toit, Elisabeth Catharina

  General Notes:

Hi Danie,

I have just come across your website, and I believe that part of my family tree intersects with yours.

However, there appear to be a discrepancy between our 2 Trees, which I'd like to discuss with you.

My 2x great-grandmother was Maria Magdalena Malan (1828-1910) who was married twice.

Her 1^st marriage was to my 2x great-grandfather Daniel Francois du Toit (1828-1869). Her 2^nd marriage was to Jan Gabriel du Plessis (1821-1896).

From her 1^st marriage (to Danie F du Toit) she had 8 (or 9) children, the youngest being born posthumously (±October) after Daniel F du Toit died in June 1869. Six of these children survived into adulthood.

It is my understanding that after Daniel F du Toit's death, she remarried Jan G du Plessis in 1873, shortly after his 1^st wife died. Together they had another child (Johanna Debora du Plessis - b. 1874). So it was probably a family comprising "your children, my children and our child"!

I inherited 2 family studio portraits of the large family - probably from the 1890s, showing Jan G du Plessis, Maria M Malan, and her surviving adult children from both her marriages, with (and without) their spouses. One younger girl doesn't have a husband, so I assume she is Johanna D du Plessis, before her marriage. Unfortunately, none of Jan G du Plessis' children from his 1^st marriage are in the photo.

If the above information is correct, then Maria M Malan's 1^st marriage was to du Toit, and her 2^nd marriage was to du Plessis (not the other way around, as shown on your family tree), and that Johanna D du Plessis was the daughter to Jan G du Plessis' 2^nd marriage (to Maria M Malan) rather than from his 1^st marriage (as shown on your Tree).

Also, I believe that Maria M Malan/du Toit/du Plessis died on 8 April 1910 (not 23 December 1873 as on your Tree - the December 1873 date was her wedding date).

I attach a copy of the family photo for your interest. Jan Gabriel du Plessis is the patriarch seated in the middle, with the "Paul Kruger" beard. Maria Magdalena Malan is the demure little wife seated next to him. Johanna Debora du Plessis is the young girl seated in the foreground, with her head leaning towards the table. The others are the children (and their spouses) of Maria M Malan from her 1^st marriage to Daniel F du Toit.

Does any of the above information tally with your family tree, or have I mixed up 2 different families? Looking forward to receiving your opinion on the above.

Kind regards,

Stephanie Geyser
1/11/2011
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Hallo Stephanie

It is great to hear from you.

There is no mix up and the information you have is perfect. The reason the spouse had shown the wrong way around is that I did not have her wedding date to du Toit and the program had forced the error. Her death date of 1873 is obviously incorrect due to various reasons and your date is more applicable. Also due to her marriage date to Jan (1873), we can safely say that Johanna (1874) is his daughter. My tree has been updated with pictures - thank you.

I have a picture of his 5 sons - go to www.farr.co.za/genealogy/photo3142.html and have a look.

You would not have more info on the rest of the du Toits - I see the gentleman seated on the left is a "Dominee" and for a moment I thought that he could be Ds SJ du Toit the guy involved with a lot of serious Afrikaans writings and dictionaries and so on. The resemblance is uncanny.

Jan Gabriel is my great-grandfather and I really appreciate the photo - if you have any others which could be relevant to my tree or more detail as to dates places and so on - please send. On the other hand if you think I could be of help, please do not hesitate to ask.

Regards

Danie

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Sent: 02 November 2011 16:23
To: 'Danie Farr'
Subject: Reply to your e-mail of yesterday on the du Toits and du Plessis/Farr Family Trees


Hi Danie,

Thanks for the very prompt reply! I am glad that you found the information of interest - sometimes people "get funny" when you suggest corrections to their family trees - as if you are trying to contaminate their research, when all you are doing is trying to help!

Actually, I was very surprised when I found that the patriarch in the photo wasn't my 2xGGrandfather Daniel Francois du Toit (1828-1869), but was Maria Magdalena Malan's 2^nd husband - as I didn't know DF du Toit had died young and that MM Malan had remarried, and had another child (Johanna Debora du Plessis)! I only discovered this when I obtained a copy of MM Malan's Death Notice, and it listed her two marriages and children from both marriages. I'll attach a copy of the Notice, so you can see mention of Jan Gabriel's death, Johanna Debora's existence, and that Johanna Debora was already married to Pieter Badenhorst by that time (1910).

By the way - your tree contained the 2^nd marriage date (23 December 1873) which I didn't have on my Tree, so many thanks for the info!

Do you have any other photos of Jan Gabriel, to compare to the photo that I e-mailed to you? (Just to make 100% sure that we have got the right Jan Gabriel?!!!).

And yes - you are (almost!) correct about the connection to Ds SJ du Toit (the "Oom Lokomotief's" youngest brother). Oom Lokomotief (also a Daniel Francois - there are so many of them around it gets very confusing!) and his 12 siblings were the cousins (a common grandfather) of "my" Daniel F du Toit (MM Malan's 1^st husband and Jan Gabriel's predecessor). Thus Ds SJ du Toit was the cousin 1x removed from the adult children in the photo I e-mailed. And the shortest man standing in the back row (2^nd person from extreme right) is Daniel Francois du Toit (eldest son of DF du Toit who died in 1869), who was the "Doktor" of the "Genootskap van Regte Afrikaners". The guy seated immediately in front of him is Ernst Johannes du Toit, the printer and publisher who worked at "Die Patriot" in Paarl, probably under Ds SJ du Toit. The Dominee on the extreme left is another brother (Ds. Francois Stephanus du Toit), who you said looks like Ds SJ du Toit. In fact, my father looks just like him too - balding and with piercing, staring eyes! Probably good for staring down at your congregation from the pulpit! The facial features (and baldness!) seems to run thick in the du Toit genes!

As a matter of interest, the people in the photo are:

Back row (standing) from left to right (I've put MM Malan's children in bold and underlined):

Johannes Jacobus Roussouw.
Maria Magdalena du Toit (1865-?) - married JJ Rossouw.
Gabriel Gideon Rousseau (my GGFather) (1862-1927).
Elisabeth Catharina du Toit (my GGMother) (1967-1960) - married GG Rousseau.
Willem Daniel Malherbe.
Hester Magdalena du Toit (1855-1939) - married WD Malherbe.
Daniel Francois du Toit (1852-1918) - the "Doktor" I spoke about above.
Unknown - married DF du Toit.

Front row (seated):

Ds Francois Stephanus du Toit (1857-1940) - the dominee.
Unknown - married Ds FS du Toit.
Jan Gabriel du Plessis (1821-1896).
Maria Magdalena Malan (du Toit) (du Plessis) (1828-1910).
Johanna Debora du Plessis (1874-?) - kneeling/sitting on floor).
Ernst Johannes du Toit (1859-1924) - the journalist at the Patriot Press.
Unknown - married EJ du Toit.

I'm also attaching another photo, which shows just MM Malan and her 6 surviving (du Toit) children. It was probably taken on the same day as the other one. She also had 3 (or 4) other du Toit children who died in infancy.

So there you have it! We can bathe in the reflected fame from our (sort of!) distant ancestors!

Kind regards,

Stephanie

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2 November 2011

Hallo Stephanie

I really appreciate the info - You have contaminated my tree in a very positive way - Thank you once again.

Would we not give our two front teeth for the photo album on the table? The fact that it is open during the taking of the picture with her surviving children and also the way Elisabeth is holding some of the photo's is properly to give some sort of recognition to those that have passed on. The one in particular could be her father. Brilliant but sad.

Unfortunately I do not have more information pertaining to Jan (1821) and you have given more than I could have hoped for.

I do get regular response and have had visitors to the site from Vietnam, France, Switzerland, Saudi Arabia, Netherlands, America, Britain, Australia, New Zeeland ect. and maybe in the future someone will confirm your findings.

Will keep you posted

Danie

Elisabeth married Gabriel Gideon Rousseau. (Gabriel Gideon Rousseau was born in 1862 and died in 1927.)